Collectible Mopar Engine & Tranny stamping question please. 69 A12 RR

[Old Mopar Guy]

Guys who know 60’s Mopar Vin stamps, do these look legit to you? Top is engine, bottom is tranny. Tranny looks a bit fishy, especially with the over strikes, but I know they are seldom perfect as well. Thanks.

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Just from what I see it looks pretty good, but I would also check other locations (casting dates) and verify everything fits - like the VIN vs correct engine/trans, casting dates should be before the car build by about a week or more. A lot of small pieces need to fit to validate everything.
The double stamp wouldn't concern me too much - I think I have seen that before... (just going by memory)

 

[vortecd]

@SilverBillet had a few of those

 

[MJS73]

Overstrikes and double characters are very common. The stampings were done by hand after the engine and trans were united and as they were moving down the line. Don't think you hit it right? Hit it again. Remember, none of these guys ever thought any of this would ever matter. Looks good to me.

 

[Bobo]

Overstrikes and double characters are very common. The stampings were done by hand after the engine and trans were united and as they were moving. Don't think you hit it right? Hit it again. Remeber, none of these guys ever thought any of this would ever matter. Looks good to me.

DONE MY MACHINE NOW BUT STILL DON'T THINK IT MATTERS. Well we know new production doesn't matter anymore other than for current titling purposes.

 

[SilverBillet]

Just from what I see it looks pretty good, but I would also check other locations (casting dates) and verify everything fits - like the VIN vs correct engine/trans, casting dates should be before the car build by about a week or more. A lot of small pieces need to fit to validate everything.
The double stamp wouldn't concern me too much - I think I have seen that before... (just going by memory)

They look pretty correct to me. I have some contacts. I’ll check with them and see what they think. The engine stamp looks like the original markings to me. Do you have a copy of the trans part number and date code? Also, there is an engine assembly date on top of the block to the right of the distributor. Under the 440 HP stamping there is a month and date stamped in. There is also an engine casting day month and year cast on the drivers side of the block under the freeze plugs. All these numbers and dates are inter-related and have to be consistent with each other

 

[SilverBillet]

Here’s the car @72 440 Barracuda. Apparently it sold at auction in 2018 for $45,000K…That was a very low price for a restored numbers matching 4 speed A12 at the time. It’s been flipped a few times since then and recently sold this past January for $77,000. It is a great color. Apparently it has a few flaws that are keeping the price down. I don’t have any information on those concerns. Most restored, numbers matching numbers A12, 4 speed Road Runners would get a lot more for them @vortecd. It seems to be for sale by a broker right now for $99,500. One of the comments from my A12 brothers was that it’s “…been flipped more than pancakes at a church breakfast!”

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

@SilverBillet thanks for all the info. Yup, thats the car. If casting dates on the transmission case work, placing the transmission in the car chronologically, then the over strikes much matter? He said he’s got a David Wise Report on the car. I’m going to call him back today to get that. When we spoke yesterday he was very straight forward and said the car definitely needs paint and bodywork. It’s an older resto. He mentioned it was bought at auction in Fl. I believe. Nowadays though, the cost of that job is waaay more than I paid when I did my ‘71. That more than likely will kill the deal. I realize that buying them done is most often cheaper than restoing it yourself, unless of course you’re in the business. I’m going to call my paint guy today to see if he’d be interested in another mulit-year project. Thanks very much for the info, in fact thanks to all who had input!

 

[572 savoy]

More important to validate matching # is the machining of the pad surface. Easy to restamp pad but machine surface is harder to fabricate.

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

Per the David wise Report I read earlier I’m tending to stay away. There are a few significant turn-offs that make me weary.
-One notation indicates the VIN Tag rivets appear to be aftermarket.
-The engine casting numbers are slightly early, 10/02/68. Assembly date 1/20/69
-Inconsistent cutter marks to factory on engine pad.
-Tranny confirmed restamp, 278 days too late.
Alot of pluses to the car, but for 100k, things need to be better. Pass for me. Thanks guys.

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Per the David wise Report I read earlier I’m tending to stay away. There are a few significant turn-offs that make me weary.
-One notation indicates the VIN Tag rivets appear to be aftermarket.
-The engine casting numbers are slightly early, 10/02/68. Assembly date 1/20/69
-Inconsistent cutter marks to factory on engine pad.
-Tranny confirmed restamp, 278 days too late.
Alot of pluses to the car, but for 100k, things need to be better. Pass for me. Thanks guys.

Sounds like there are quite a few concerns around different aspects of the car. Obviously these are important when buying and I would agree with your assessment - meaning things don't look right and the prices seem to be more on par with a better (documented-wise) car - although I don't really know what prices are in todays market...

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

Sounds like there are quite a few concerns around different aspects of the car. Obviously these are important when buying and I would agree with your assessment - meaning things don't look right and the prices seem to be more on par with a better (documented-wise) car - although I don't really know what prices are in todays market...

Plus it’s been flipped a bit too frequently. I figure people jumped on it not seeing the big picture and after getting into it figure better to dump it than pour money into what’s going amount to a greater loss eventually. I’m in no rush, and would have to sell either my roadrunner or the HC to free up $ and garage space. Thanks again for your input fellas. There will be another along anyway…

 

[SilverBillet]

You have a nice RoadRunner @Old Mopar Guy. You don’t see many like it at the car shows. You can easily make sure that you could drive it anywhere. No improvement necessary! An A12 is more of a garage queen than anything. If you had the one in question, it could be a money pit like you said. Take it from experience. I raced and drove mine back in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. I enjoyed it but it became a trailer queen. Times have changed. Having a car like that is not the same anymore. I bought the black one in 1972 for $1,750 with 9,100 miles on it and kept it for 24 years. I had plenty of seat time in it. The silver one (platinum metallic) had 7,400 miles on it when I bought it in 2005. Needed almost zero real body work and had a perfect original interior except for headliner and carpet…but I did a $60,000 rotisserie resto on it, most of the work, including the motor, myself except for body and paint. Kept it for 12 years and had less than 200 miles seat time in it. Car shows got old and keeping a truck and trailer has its own issues. I still have a work in progress and not happy about it. Be happy.

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

@SilverBillet, you’re a lucky man having owned 2, never mind just one. That platinum metallic car is beautiful!!! Thanks for the complement on my ‘71. I can’t complain, of course, having the 2 toys, but with only a few more years, hopefully, until retirement, I thought it would be a fun resto project. I hear ‘ya about the car shows, when my RR was completed in late 2002 I did a bunch of local shows, got a bunch of trophy's, including Carlisle, but it got tiring, I do drive it though, so I don’t bother with the other bs. Plus I was riding a motorcycle then, and would much rather be on the bike all day than sitting around in a field. I would trade both cars for a wing car, but that’s a pipe dream at this point, they’ve gotten so out of reach!

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

@SilverBillet, you’re a lucky man having owned 2, never mind just one. That platinum metallic car is beautiful!!! Thanks for the complement on my ‘71. I can’t complain, of course, having the 2 toys, but with only a few more years, hopefully, until retirement, I thought it would be a fun resto project. I hear ‘ya about the car shows, when my RR was completed in late 2002 I did a bunch of local shows, got a bunch of trophy's, including Carlisle, but it got tiring, I do drive it though, so I don’t bother with the other bs. Plus I was riding a motorcycle then, and would much rather be on the bike all day than sitting around in a field. I would trade both cars for a wing car, but that’s a pipe dream at this point, they’ve gotten so out of reach!

I think, like you guys, I have a love for old muscle cars, but I never had the opportunity to own the ones I lusted for. My approach has always been to create the one I wanted - not a numbers matching original, but the next best thing (for me - anyway). I always wanted a '70 AAR Cuda, so I used a '72 340 Cuda to create one. Same scenario with a big block Cuda, so I swapped a 440 into another '72 Barracuda. I have done the same with an A-body 340 Dart (a '67) and a '74 Challenger Rallye. I guess I have a history with my toys, but I never try to pass them off as something they're not.
It wasn't until a 2015 Hellcat came available that I had an opportunity own an the real deal.

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

@72 440 Barracuda I get the whole idea behind building/driving clones. It’s great, but I know eventually I’ll be selling all my shit and I always look for the down the road potential payoff. I’d love to have a multi carb E Body, Dodge or Plymouth, and am always watching them too. I’ve always liked the older Max Wedge cars, and they can still be bought for a fair, imho, buck, but I dig the later styling. Gen 2 Charger would fit the bill nicely as well!
As far as off brands go, I used to work in a car wash as a kid, and would look through the fence to the guy next door’s 69 Hurst Olds, white/gold, love that car!!!