Had some fun at the track

[WhipCat]

Went out to a track rental a week or so ago. Ran quite a few passes. Hot lapping the car pretty decent as well. I made around 15 passes.

I came to the track and just unloaded it the way I raced it in Ocala. Which is basically a street tune on the 4.5” pulley with a couple tweaks from Mario at Gearhead during the race. Car went 174mph in half on tune.

Ran consistent 9.6-9.7 with a best of 9.62 at 146 mph with a 1.55 60’

I cannot get the car to hook when I hole shot it.
I foot brake it and stalled to 1300 rpm, pause and wait for the last yellow and put it to the floor and spin.

I managed to baby the throttle and get a best of 1.49 but could not get further. When I gave the extra ass kick it won’t stick.

The prep seemed alright. A murdered out demon went 9.12 at 156 mph with a 1.26 60’ carrying the front wheels for like 70’. It was sick AF.

Anyways. The launch is a pain and not sure what’s up. My suspension mods are as follows.

Dss lvl 5 half shafts
2.62 Diff
Tba machine diff brace
Bwoody upper control arms
BMR Cradle lock out kit
Mopar lowering springs
Wheel is a bogart 17x10.5 with a 315/50/17

Tire pressure was 17.5 psi in rears, and I heated them up.

 

[Speedy!]

I've heard the launch is the challenge with the whipple.

 

[Hpindy]

I have been struggling with the same issue . Have you tried pulling some timing in the lower end ? I'm going to try this next year . I have never been able to "caveman" the throttle off the line . Even my "daylight under the tires" runs I had roll into the throttle. It's a fine line to find.

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[WhipCat]

Seems there is a line between “send everything” and then “I’m listening I’ll go a little easier”

The line is so fine, getting it consistent is like a dice roll.

I’m wondering if it’s a tuning thing on the whipple to pull back some power on the hit so I can get it to bite before it blows the tires off and then bring the power in all the way.

Maybe some suspension mods to help take that power and get it to launch.

Been racing it for a while and just can’t ever find the sweet spot. I would say I’ve launched it 50 - 60 passes overall playing with it.

 

[Hpindy]

I have been talking with a few tuners and they suggested pulling timing down low then ramping it back up aggressively to full power after you get rolling . Your suspension mods look top notch to me I'm not sure how to improve on it . I have no experience with the 15 inch conversation to say if it will help or not .

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[Demon1]

I’m wondering if a front spring change would help weight transfer. I will say even stock Demons can’t hit WOT on the launch. As you said, there is a fine line between good hook/launch and total spin fest.

Still great performance.

 

[Hellion]

Whip, it looks like you are battling what I have been doing for over 2 years now. Good luck to you.

I have been telling you guys for 2 years now. You have to pull power down low then bring it in. This is why our full weight Whipple cars only run 9.50's. I have made 100's of passes with my Whipple and changed so many settings trying to get this to launch and not spin the tires. We have played with the timing and TB settings. I have launched the car anywhere between 1000 and now with a converter 2000 rpm. It would always launch in the 1.40's before a converter and now it goes 1.39 at 2000 rpm with a converter. Still only running 9'50's I have tried the 4.5 the 4.25 and the 4.0 pulleys. I run 9.50's with any of the three pulleys. The smaller the pulley the more power you have to pull out down low. This is why I tell everyone the stock S/C will get you down the quarter faster. I always say I do not recommend the Whipple. It makes to much torque down low. If all you do is street race the car then the Whipple might work better for you as it makes a little more top end speed.

I'm still waiting on the 3.0 S/C to come out, then I will sell off my Whipple as someone else will think it's better.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

I agree with Hellion.
Now, where are the videos of the Demon?

 

[Marc W]

Went out to a track rental a week or so ago. Ran quite a few passes. Hot lapping the car pretty decent as well. I made around 15 passes.

I came to the track and just unloaded it the way I raced it in Ocala. Which is basically a street tune on the 4.5” pulley with a couple tweaks from Mario at Gearhead during the race. Car went 174mph in half on tune.

Ran consistent 9.6-9.7 with a best of 9.62 at 146 mph with a 1.55 60’

I cannot get the car to hook when I hole shot it.
I foot brake it and stalled to 1300 rpm, pause and wait for the last yellow and put it to the floor and spin.

I managed to baby the throttle and get a best of 1.49 but could not get further. When I gave the extra ass kick it won’t stick.

The prep seemed alright. A murdered out demon went 9.12 at 156 mph with a 1.26 60’ carrying the front wheels for like 70’. It was sick AF.

Anyways. The launch is a pain and not sure what’s up. My suspension mods are as follows.

Dss lvl 5 half shafts
2.62 Diff
Tba machine diff brace
Bwoody upper control arms
BMR Cradle lock out kit
Mopar lowering springs
Wheel is a bogart 17x10.5 with a 315/50/17

Tire pressure was 17.5 psi in rears, and I heated them up.

I don’t think lowering springs are helping your situation any. I went with the Mopar 1320 Scatpack Drag Springs. They come with light weight front and rear sway bars. They do not raise the front or rear of the car like the Demon or other weight transfer springs do and they ride nice. Softer than the Hellcat springs which is a good thing after all the bushings and control arms tighten everything up. As far as the Whipple thing goes.... ask ZHC about what it takes to get his 427 Whipple down the track. Track tuning! Obviously he knows what he’s doing and because he’s tuning his own car, he can invest as much time as it takes to figure it out. I took mine out for it’s maiden voyage down the quarter mile and made one pass. DA was 3000’. Decided to start with the tires at 20 lbs. That was my first mistake and I learned something about the Radial Pros (they need to be a lot lower than that). This was a initial test pass with zero track tuning to get some data. 4.0 pulley with 3.25 gear was going to be a challenge and with the tires at 20 lbs....it hooked up at half track when the tcm said screw this and short shifted into 6th gear. It ran 9.61 at 147 mph with a 1.57 sixty ft. So that’s the starting point and the challenge is the same as yours...... put it to the ground. Because I don’t drive the car out on the highway.... my decision on how to do that is easy. I am not going to spend countless passes down the track, logging data and swapping files to get a handle on the tcm. I’m not going to burn up (or break) a hp90 or two in the process. The T400 is ordered and that thing will put the power to the ground and shift when I tell it to.

 

[vortecd]

WhipCat, if your control arms are not adjustable I would get some that are so you can make sure your tires are getting full contact.

There was a guy with a scat pack Challenger that said his car hooked way better and on the street and track after he installed some Spohn adjustable control arms. Said it was night and day difference

I will be looking at doing it next year on my Daytona

 

[vortecd]

As Marc said the 1320 springs would probably help also

 

[Marc W]

Also.... in case you (or anyone else) is wondering how it sits on those 1320 springs.... and that’s on a 31” tall tire

 

[WhipCat]

Doesn’t make any sense to say it just makes to much power down low so the supercharger is unusable.

I also don’t think it’s a matter of pulling timing. There are allot of tuning tools to help with different things like this. I’ve heard some feedback from others who have been working on this and timing is not the key.

There are lots of other combos that put down this kind or crazier power and get a car dialed in.

It’s a matter of consistency I think for me. I just don’t go often enough to get it down. This shits not easy. It’s nice to see @zhc getting faster and faster with his whipple setup. He might have to share a tune file with me...lol

Was thinking of mixing things up with th suspension to see if that helps also.

 

[WhipCat]

WhipCat, if your control arms are not adjustable I would get some that are so you can make sure your tires are getting full contact.

There was a guy with a scat pack Challenger that said his car hooked way better and on the street and track after he installed some Spohn adjustable control arms. Said it was night and day difference

I will be looking at doing it next year on my Daytona

They are fixed. I was thinking of doing the adjustables as well, put it on alignment rack, put some weight in the trunk and get the rear to squat, then do the adjustment perfectly.

 

[Marc W]

Doesn’t make any sense to say it just makes to much power down low so the supercharger is unusable.

I also don’t think it’s a matter of pulling timing. There are allot of tuning tools to help with different things like this. I’ve heard some feedback from others who have been working on this and timing is not the key.

There are lots of other combos that put down this kind or crazier power and get a car dialed in.

It’s a matter of consistency I think for me. I just don’t go often enough to get it down. This shits not easy. It’s nice to see @zhc getting faster and faster with his whipple setup. He might have to share a tune file with me...lol

Whip. I agree. Yes the instant big torque numbers are a challenge, but if you’re paying attention to who’s doing what out there... there are a few getting it to the ground. And when they do... it pays off. There is more than one 8 second Whipple out there now and they are running huge mph. I have talked with Z and while he’s not giving away secrets.... he is mostly concentrating on the tcm tuning. Yes there is some timing manipulation going on but the key to getting it down the track is in the tcm. Even down to fluid levels. The problem for most of us mortals is we don’t have one of the top level tuners at our disposal all day at the track. That is one of the main reasons I’m going to the 400. It’s going to simplify things. That’s a good thing for me because like you said... this shit isn’t easy.

 

[Marc W]

They are fixed. I was thinking of doing the adjustables as well, put it on alignment rack, put some weight in the trunk and get the rear to squat, then do the adjustment perfectly.

Whip! You have to adjust your camber. These things come with negative camber and when you lower it.... you increase that. When it squats, it goes further negative. You are only getting half your tire on the track. I was back on the alignment rack just yesterday because of all the changes to the suspension and rear end that have been done. We had to change the toe links to fit the 15” wheel conversion and I just had a guess in there. That was probably another issue for that first pass down the track. It was pidgin toed in the rear. A full degree in. I did a burn out on the street and it left two outside edge stripes because of that. That’s not the way to get down the track. At this level you have to address everything.

 

[WhipCat]

Whip! You have to adjust your camber. These things come with negative camber and when you lower it.... you increase that. When it squats, it goes further negative. You are only getting half your tire on the track. I was back on the alignment rack just yesterday because of all the changes to the suspension and rear end that have been done. We had to change the toe links to fit the 15” wheel conversion and I just had a guess in there. That was probably another issue for that first pass down the track. It was pidgin toed in the rear. A full degree in. I did a burn out on the street and it left two outside edge stripes because of that. That’s not the way to get down the track. At this level you have to address everything.

I need to come over and get the alignment done at @Marc0779 placs.

I remember back him telling me about this.

It’s fun racing, but I want to pull the front tires and launch this thing.

 

[Hpindy]

On a side note I have Demon springs and swaybars front and rear . They definitely helped with the launch and smoother on the street . I'm not making a million hp like you guys but I'm impressed with the upgrade .

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[Hellion]

ask ZHC about what it takes to get his 427 Whipple down the track.

This shits not easy. It’s nice to see @zhc getting faster and faster with his whipple setup. He might have to share a tune file with me...lol.

Guys ZHC Secret Sauce is:
1. His car weighs 4200 lbs with him in it.
2. His motor has another 50 more cubic inches than a stock hellcat motor. The 4.5 Whipple is actually to big for our stock CID blocks so with a bigger motor it allows the Whipple to work much better. This equals a better ET and MPH. Look at his dyno graph. His car is making some big power 150 to 200 whp over most of us with a Whipple.
3. ZHC is fine tuning his car. I don't see a huge margin between his tuning and say Curt's tuning. I'm sure some small gains have been produced with ZHC tuning his own car but not like several tenths. Curt can't be with all of us for every pass.

 

[Marc0779]

I need to come over and get the alignment done at @Marc0779 placs.

I remember back him telling me about this.

It’s fun racing, but I want to pull the front tires and launch this thing.

Aad upper adjustables Spoone lower adjustables head down to Marco i will set you up