Grout Filling the block, as the Aussies say

[RGPIII]

Also to update, I have not Dynoed my car and don't have plans to, so I really don't know how much power it will make. The only part I care about is ET. so what ever HP it makes to go 8.9's on a stock engine. and whatever HP its going to take to go 8.5's on boost. and maybe low 8's on a small shot. so is there a certain ET that you would say needs to be half or full filled? haha .

 

[Marc W]

Marc, any idea how much extra weight the fill adds? Just curious buddy was asking and I have no clue thanx

Still waiting on getting the time scheduled to do it. I’ll take some pics and may be able to guess on that after.

 

[zhc]

Also to update, I have not Dynoed my car and don't have plans to, so I really don't know how much power it will make. The only part I care about is ET. so what ever HP it makes to go 8.9's on a stock engine. and whatever HP its going to take to go 8.5's on boost. and maybe low 8's on a small shot. so is there a certain ET that you would say needs to be half or full filled? haha .

Unless you’re willing to reset the process and wait another 6-12 months, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Maybe this will help, I’ve tuned a lot of cars running mid and low 8’s unfilled. Just stay away from big nitrous shots and you should be good. If the block does fail, it’ll more likely be the effect of something else happening that caused spiking cylinder pressures.

 

[vortecd]

Running on ethanol helps, it keeps temps down considerably, methanol even more.
A street/strip car can be half filled without much hassle.
https://youtube.com/@stevemorrisracing
Regarding Steve Morris… yeah, a “good string of bad luck”… as they say. Horrible circumstances surrounding a lot of his heartache. He is an amazing guy, he takes it in stride, and stays calm-cool-and collected. One of my favorite channels on YouTube, and I recommend it to any car guy.
You can tell by the comments that he addresses in his videos that he has a bunch of “new” car guys watching his stuff, and a bunch of old dogs that have been at it for 50 years that still have something to learn, and a lot to share.

I was at his old shop a few times and his new shop once. I guess it really isnt that new anymore, around 10 years ago. A friend worked for him awhile ago and now works at holley.

 

[RGPIII]

Unless you’re willing to reset the process and wait another 6-12 months, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Maybe this will help, I’ve tuned a lot of cars running mid and low 8’s unfilled. Just stay away from big nitrous shots and you should be good. If the block does fail, it’ll more likely be the effect of something else happening that caused spiking cylinder pressures.

thank you. this is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Magnified]

At what power level do you think this is a must for? 1500? 1800? 2000?

Depends on the block you're using. Seen cars in Aussie-land at 1000 whp doing a half-fill set up. They may be more into it because of a comparative lack of custom racing blocks for high HP applications? I do not know enough about the market there to comment.

 

[Hickster]

I gots a buddy down in da area of Sarasoda tats builds carz fer da dudes on Discuvery Chanell. I will sea if I can beat it out of em. he wuz wantiin 2 build my car butt itster waz still unda warranty. Glad I did'nt due to fool head problems.

 

[Hatermkr]

It’s a specific mix that matches the iron content of the block. When the water jackets are filled to just below the water pump, it increases the strength of the block while still allowing cylinder and head cooling sufficient for a drag motor. 1500+ hp is pushing the limits of what even the early Hellcat block can take, so this, along with a lot of stress relief and precise machining will increase the chances of getting away with it.

Why not just buy a aluminum block

 

[Marc W]

Why not just buy a aluminum block

I personally don't know that the MOPAR aluminum block is any stronger than the end result I'm going to see with my early BGE when we're done. I paid $2k for the 2016 block and will be another $2500 into it when done. That additional cost is for some extremely expensive machine work done by a shop in Calif that does many of the name (Pro) NHRA stuff. Expensive but right. That Aluminum block is over $7k now? Not sure but what I think I heard that. And.... I still have to add the same machine work. That looks like close to $10k by it's ready for assembly. The billet Noonan is $15k. I would love one of those but......

 

[GNBRETT]

Losing the 100 lbs off the front end was my main objective. HHP told me they hurt (3) BGE blocks in one year and asked what my HP goals were and talked me into buying the Aluminum plus they stated u can go bigger CI's. I think they can go to 440 c I believe. Im assuming they were trying to go really f-ing fast lol but nonetheless they stated since swapping over to the Aluminum block the have had zero block issues.

HHP stated it was good to 2000+ hp with the internals I chose. I would just think at ur level u have lost any additional weight u might have. Finding another 100 lbs is gonna be tough. Seems like quite an advantage in the race world especially since ur taking that weight off the front end where u definately dont want it.

I personally don't know that the MOPAR aluminum block is any stronger than the end result I'm going to see with my early BGE when we're done. I paid $2k for the 2016 block and will be another $2500 into it when done. That additional cost is for some extremely expensive machine work done by a shop in Calif that does many of the name (Pro) NHRA stuff. Expensive but right. That Aluminum block is over $7k now? Not sure but what I think I heard that. And.... I still have to add the same machine work. That looks like close to $10k by it's ready for assembly. The billet Noonan is $15k. I would love one of those but......

 

[Marc W]

Losing the 100 lbs off the front end was my main objective. HHP told me they hurt (3) BGE blocks in one year and asked what my HP goals were and talked me into buying the Aluminum plus they stated u can go bigger CI's. I think they can go to 440 c I believe. Im assuming they were trying to go really f-ing fast lol but nonetheless they stated since swapping over to the Aluminum block the have had zero block issues.

HHP stated it was good to 2000+ hp with the internals I chose. I would just think at ur level u have lost any additional weight u might have. Finding another 100 lbs is gonna be tough. Seems like quite an advantage in the race world especially since ur taking that weight off the front end where u definately dont want it.

The 100 lb weight difference is a plus with the aluminum block. A big plus. I wish I had that. You’re right that losing weight at this point gets expensive. And this is a pretty good example. If in fact that block costs $9k by the time the machine work is done……. it’s $5k over what I’ll have in mine. I can’t argue HHP’s numbers on their block. Sounds good to me. If they want to sponsor me one…. 😎. As I have said…. The early 6.2 blocks are much harder than the later versions. We did some extensive prep on this thing with a carbide cutting tool and the “other” BGE’s are like butter by comparison. I’m planning on keeping this thing blower only so 2000 hp is a bit optimistic. And like Z said…. It’s likely a event somewhere other than the block that starts things.

 

[GNBRETT]

So ur shooting for 1800 whp on blower alone? Cant wait to see this gonna be epic! Is there a new Whipple in the near future? Thats why I spent a small fortune building the motor and trans so when a new blower comes out to replace the 3.8 I'll have supporting parts. Trans is a stage 3 Pure. I only used Pure cause they were an hour away and it was simple.

Had to buy basically a whole new fuel system smh when I thought I had everything I needed lol. Z says that 3.8 requires a LOT of fuel and the 1700's wont cut it so 2150 injectors, (3) new 535's fuel pumps, (3) JMS boost-a-pumps, (3) 50 amp relays geez it never seems to end lol.

This is for my Trackhawk tho. Trans, converter and transfer case was really freaking expensive but a stage 2 Pure trans went 8.63@162 mph so hopefully it holds up. My Trackhawk I would guess is one of the lighter TH's out there with the Aluminum block, Aluminum heads, titanium exhaust, rear seat delete, lots of CF and ceramic rotors are next. Im trying to get into the 8's on blower alone. I dont believe that has been done yet.

The 100 lb weight difference is a plus with the aluminum block. A big plus. I wish I had that. You’re right that losing weight at this point gets expensive. And this is a pretty good example. If in fact that block costs $9k by the time the machine work is done……. it’s $5k over what I’ll have in mine. I can’t argue HHP’s numbers on their block. Sounds good to me. If they want to sponsor me one…. 😎. As I have said…. The early 6.2 blocks are much harder than the later versions. We did some extensive prep on this thing with a carbide cutting tool and the “other” BGE’s are like butter by comparison. I’m planning on keeping this thing blower only so 2000 hp is a bit optimistic. And like Z said…. It’s likely a event somewhere other than the block that starts things.

 

[Marc W]

So ur shooting for 1800 whp on blower alone? Cant wait to see this gonna be epic! Is there a new Whipple in the near future? Thats why I spent a small fortune building the motor and trans so when a new blower comes out to replace the 3.8 I'll have supporting parts. Trans is a stage 3 Pure. I only used Pure cause they were an hour away and it was simple.

Had to buy basically a whole new fuel system smh when I thought I had everything I needed lol. Z says that 3.8 requires a LOT of fuel and the 1700's wont cut it so 2150 injectors, (3) new 535's fuel pumps, (3) JMS boost-a-pumps, (3) 50 amp relays geez it never seems to end lol.

This is for my Trackhawk tho. Trans, converter and transfer case was really freaking expensive but a stage 2 Pure trans went 8.63@162 mph so hopefully it holds up. My Trackhawk I would guess is one of the lighter TH's out there with the Aluminum block, Aluminum heads, titanium exhaust, rear seat delete, lots of CF and ceramic rotors are next. Im trying to get into the 8's on blower alone. I dont believe that has been done yet.

We saw 1400whp at 3000da with the 3.8 on a much less aggressive motor than what we’re doing now. We expect 1600+ at the wheels thru the T400. That’s more than 1800 at the crank. That’s why we did the block fill.

 

[GNBRETT]

Is the 3.8 still being used? I thought u were upgrading.

We saw 1400whp at 3000da with the 3.8 on a much less aggressive motor than what we’re doing now. We expect 1600+ at the wheels thru the T400. That’s more than 1800 at the crank. That’s why we did the block fill.

 

[Marc W]

Is the 3.8 still being used? I thought u were upgrading.

The “upgrade”…. like everything else, is slow to happen. So we’re sticking with my 3.8. It has eight passes on it and checked out 100%. It looks like it doesn’t have any of the issues others have seen. We also have a trick or two we’re looking at to insure longevity. It’s the one that made the 1400whp I spoke of, so…… 👊

 

[GNBRETT]

Did u happen to get that ported? I just got mine back from Kong and wondering what the gains are from porting?

The “upgrade”…. like everything else, is slow to happen. So we’re sticking with my 3.8. It has eight passes on it and checked out 100%. It looks like it doesn’t have any of the issues others have seen. We also have a trick or two we’re looking at to insure longevity. It’s the one that made the 1400whp I spoke of, so…… 👊

 

[Marc W]

Did u happen to get that ported? I just got mine back from Kong and wondering what the gains are from porting?

It was a special “custom” order from Whipple. Had some additional attention done there.

 

[GNBRETT]

Copy that

It was a special “custom” order from Whipple. Had some additional attention done there.